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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    16 Dec '14 10:38
    http://www.mamamia.com.au/social/dear-australian-muslims-will-ride/

    Today, Australia’s Muslim community joins with the rest of our nation as we sit in horror, glued to our television screens and wishing, hoping, praying for the safety of the hostages trapped inside the Lindt Cafe.

    Like all Australians, they are wondering what might be going through the trapped people’s minds, feeling emotional that this could be happening in our own backyard and hoping the hostages escape without harm. Muslims have invited all Australians to pray with them at mosques around the country, in a show of solidarity with the hostages and their families.

    ....

    There are those who will yell at, swear at, physically intimidate or attack and abuse peace-loving Muslims who are simply going about their daily business. There are those who will target their homes and places of worship.

    And then there are people like Rachael, who won’t stand for that behaviour.

    Following Rachael’s moving lead, many of us have taken to social media to express our willingness to travel on public transport with members of the Muslim community anywhere in Australia who are feeling vulnerable or who have experienced abuse or intimidation in the wake of the Sydney siege.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/15/world/asia/australia-hostage-illridewithyou/
    There were fears that Australian Muslims could become the targets of racially motivated retaliatory attacks.

    Instead Australian Twitter users offered to accompany Muslims wearing religious clothes on public transport as a gesture of solidarity under the hashtag #illridewithyou.

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/-australians-reach-out-to-muslims-on-twitter/18754.html
    Tens of thousands of Twitter users already offered their support. According to reports, an Australian woman started the #Illridewithyou hashtag to show solidarity with Muslims who might feel threatened on public transport.
    “#373 bus between Coogee & Martin Place. #Illridewithyou @ me if you just want to wear your headdress & not be bothered,” @sirtessa tweeted.
    Within hours, Australians around the country repeated the hashtag, making #Illridewithyou one of the top trends on the social media site.
    “I make a commitment, right now, to always say something when I see any kind of abuse on public transport. #Illridewithyou,” one user tweeted. Another wrote: “If you wear religious attire, & need to get from #Adelaide’s west suburbs to the city on Tues but don’t want to travel alone #Illridewithyou.” Another said: “I’m in. If u wear religious garments & feel unsafe, I’ll sit with u. Redfern-KX, peak hrs.
  2. 16 Dec '14 12:57
    Originally posted by finnegan
    http://www.mamamia.com.au/social/dear-australian-muslims-will-ride/

    Today, Australia’s Muslim community joins with the rest of our nation as we sit in horror, glued to our television screens and wishing, hoping, praying for the safety of the hostages trapped inside the Lindt Cafe.

    Like all Australians, they are wondering what might be going thr ...[text shortened]... m in. If u wear religious garments & feel unsafe, I’ll sit with u. Redfern-KX, peak hrs.
    Are you another one of these do gooders who will always play
    the racism card/religious card/poor downtrodden minority card?

    These Muslims are members of the most backward religion on earth
    and deserve to be targeted for ridicule and criticism.

    They come to Christian countries because we are progressive and tolerant.

    We preach peace and harmony and progress.


    They only teach violence and death and shun education,
    especially for women.

    If this is how they treat people in civilized countries
    then they should be put out.

    We don't want them.
  3. 16 Dec '14 15:17
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Are you another one of these do gooders who will always play
    the racism card/religious card/poor downtrodden minority card?

    These Muslims are members of the most backward religion on earth
    and deserve to be targeted for ridicule and criticism.

    They come to Christian countries because we are progressive and tolerant.

    We preach peace and ha ...[text shortened]... w they treat people in civilized countries
    then they should be put out.

    We don't want them.
    Peace and harmony and progress through racism. Nice.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    16 Dec '14 15:23
    I just wish the reaction would be that strong to defend Jewish students being harassed on college campuses by pro-Palestinian thugs.

    http://www.amchainitiative.org/student-voices-being-jewish-on-campus/

    http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2014/7/28/while-global-anti-semitism-surges-dont-forget-us-campuses#.VJBOPCvF-68=

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/ucla-must-end-harassment-and-bullying-of-jewish-students-2/

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/joseph-klein/the-alarming-rise-of-campus-anti-semitism/
  5. 16 Dec '14 16:07
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Peace and harmony and progress through racism. Nice.
    There are clearly differences in ethnicities and cultures in their beliefs and behaviors, and their attitudes and actions toward others. We can agree that non interference in people's beliefs and attitudes is a good thing. When their behaviors, and actions interfere with a civil society it's an entirely different story.
  6. 16 Dec '14 16:48
    Originally posted by normbenign
    There are clearly differences in ethnicities and cultures in their beliefs and behaviors, and their attitudes and actions toward others. We can agree that non interference in people's beliefs and attitudes is a good thing. When their behaviors, and actions interfere with a civil society it's an entirely different story.
    We should judge individuals by their individual actions, not by the perceived actions or beliefs of groups individuals are perceived to belong to. This takes some critical thinking, since humans, as a social, tribal species, instinctively tend to think of themselves and others belonging to distinct groups rather than seeing all humans as individuals.
  7. 16 Dec '14 17:08
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    We should judge individuals by their individual actions, not by the perceived actions or beliefs of groups individuals are perceived to belong to. This takes some critical thinking, since humans, as a social, tribal species, instinctively tend to think of themselves and others belonging to distinct groups rather than seeing all humans as individuals.
    By golly, I think you've got it. Next thing you'll be doing is extolling the virtue of free markets and choice on other things.
  8. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    16 Dec '14 17:28
    Originally posted by sh76
    I just wish the reaction would be that strong to defend Jewish students being harassed on college campuses by pro-Palestinian thugs.

    http://www.amchainitiative.org/student-voices-being-jewish-on-campus/

    http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2014/7/28/while-global-anti-semitism-surges-dont-forget-us-campuses#.VJBOPCvF-68=

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributi ...[text shortened]... s-2/

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/joseph-klein/the-alarming-rise-of-campus-anti-semitism/
    I'll ride with you SH
  9. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    16 Dec '14 18:57
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody

    We don't want them.
    "them" means all Muslims?

    Who are "we"?
    Who do you represent and who gave you the mandate to represent anyone?
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    16 Dec '14 18:59
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    I'll ride with you SH
    Before you volunteer, you should really ask where I'm going.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    16 Dec '14 19:32 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Are you another one of these do gooders who will always play
    the racism card/religious card/poor downtrodden minority card?

    These Muslims are members of the most backward religion on earth
    and deserve to be targeted for ridicule and criticism.

    They come to Christian countries because we are progressive and tolerant.

    We preach peace and ha ...[text shortened]... w they treat people in civilized countries
    then they should be put out.

    We don't want them.
    Yes Ireland is a famously progressive and tolerant country thanks be to Jaysus. Whenever I wish to argue against religious bigotry and violence, I always think first of the island of saints and scholars. As for progressive - you would not get an Irishman coming to violence over a piece of mediaeval theology or a grievance against an invader centuries ago. Not at all.

    Of course, women are not oppressed in Ireland and anyone who says they are is a communist atheist. As for leaving education in the hands of religious fanatics and priests, I'll be buggered if I hear such things said of the good old Christian Brothers who educated me and my brother so well. Admittedly neither of us actually completed their education for one reason and another.

    Oddly though, when the Irish (all of us without exception of course) left a trail of bombs around the English mainland, we still expected to live and work here, passing freely through the borders without a passport or restriction of any kind, and entertaining mainland folk clubs with our cheery IRA songs to unfailing applause. Because we were never backward and fanatical, like ...(you know who).

    Note for those who do not understand irony and you know who you are, I am Irish and from Dublin and this is not my opinion at all but a representation of the type of racism expressed in the post above. It is easy and lazy to adopt a racist attitude and in the case of Islamaphobia, it is largely considered acceptable in the West. What we see in the Australian response of #illridewithyou is a rejection of that racism and I welcome that - it is brilliant.
  12. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    16 Dec '14 19:43
    Originally posted by sh76
    I just wish the reaction would be that strong to defend Jewish students being harassed on college campuses by pro-Palestinian thugs.

    http://www.amchainitiative.org/student-voices-being-jewish-on-campus/

    http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2014/7/28/while-global-anti-semitism-surges-dont-forget-us-campuses#.VJBOPCvF-68=

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributi ...[text shortened]... s-2/

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/joseph-klein/the-alarming-rise-of-campus-anti-semitism/
    Quite right, anti-semitism and racism generally in all its forms is to be challenged and rejected. Obviously, it is essential to be consistent and not to oppose racism against one group while promoting it towards another.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    16 Dec '14 21:20
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Yes Ireland is a famously progressive and tolerant country thanks be to Jaysus. Whenever I wish to argue against religious bigotry and violence, I always think first of the island of saints and scholars. As for progressive - you would not get an Irishman coming to violence over a piece of mediaeval theology or a grievance against an invader centuries ago. N ...[text shortened]... response of #illridewithyou is a rejection of that racism and I welcome that - it is brilliant.
    Johnny is half French and I think he's an atheist. He is also short.

    For anyone who cares.
  14. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    16 Dec '14 21:28
    "Muslims have invited all Australians to pray with them at mosques around the country, in a show of solidarity with the hostages and their families."

    And I invite them to F-off with their god bothering bs invitations to bow before their imaginary friend. It's not prayers that save people in situations like these.
  15. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    16 Dec '14 22:00
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    "Muslims have invited all Australians to pray with them at mosques around the country, in a show of solidarity with the hostages and their families."

    And I invite them to F-off with their god bothering bs invitations to bow before their imaginary friend. It's not prayers that save people in situations like these.
    Well I am also an atheist so that's not my problem here. I assume you hold the same view of the other major religions, including Christians and Jews and Hindus but I did not notice you attack the reference to Christian countries above - you only attacked the references to Muslims.

    My first issue, rather, is that the attempt to destroy religious faith through violence has a long and shameful history with not a lot of success, though the Franks did force the Saxons to adopt Christianity and the Spanish did something similar to the Mexicans. The Christians did of course successfully destroy the Pagan philosophers in the late Roman Empire, which conveniently included the elimination of scientific thinking for a thousand dismal years, but oddly enough their work was assisted because ordinary people just disguised their pagan beliefs in Christian terms and carried on much as before. So you will not damage the world's second largest religion by violence or the threat of violence. What you will achieve is the opposite.

    My second problem is that what passes for religious differences is often a cover for an attack on some of the poorest and most oppressed people around. You complain about people coming to your countries from Muslim countries which have been constantly occupied and controlled and always oppressed and exploited by Western powers and corporations.

    Don't like Islamic government and politics? Our governments destroyed the secular and democratic alternatives. Wish they were better educated? Our governments have deprived the mass of the people in Muslim regions of the economic resources to permit social development and our governments have installed and protected their wealthy rulers.

    So people have come here who are Muslim. Many more people have converted or been born to Muslim families. Attacking and insulting people because they are Muslims is vicious.

    Don't like women to be heavily veiled? That is not a reason to make them feel unsafe in our streets or on public transport.

    in short you are just a nasty piece of work, as ignorant as you are bigoted.