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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    06 Oct '17 08:33
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whopping 10−210−2 for the Earth-Moon system. In addition, The sun and moon appear the same size in Earth’s sky because the sun’s diameter is about 400 times greater – but the sun is also about 400 times farther away. I'm having a hard time convincing myself this is all coincidence. Sometimes I think about this when I read scriptural passages such as:

    Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
  2. 06 Oct '17 08:37
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    yes, and a cow, look at from the right distance is also the size of the sun and the moon.

    a tractor can be the same size as well or a boot. when viewed from the right distance
  3. 06 Oct '17 08:58
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    No.

    Clearly, for no good reason whatsoever, god decided to make our moon special compared to other moons because "that'll convince them of my existence". At the same time, though, we are expected to have "faith" in god's existence which is why he doesn't show himself unambigiously.

    Yepyepyep, it all makes sense.

    Also, shouldn't this be in spirituality, next to the rest of the non-sensical religious babble there?

    Or is this a debate? Has Trump said something?

    "This [Earth] is a planet. It's surrounded by a moon. Big moon. Cheesy moon."
  4. 06 Oct '17 09:13 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    The distance to the moon has changed over time. It's not fixed.
    It even changes from eclipse to eclipse, up and down.
    400 times is only approximate distance, not exact.

    But this you knew already, didn't you?
  5. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    06 Oct '17 09:36
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    When one considers the circle of little animals has been telling the Gospel thousands of years before the Christ visited the planet a couple of thousand years ago, it is clear coincidence has nothing to do with any part of creation.
  6. 06 Oct '17 12:30
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    When one considers the circle of little animals has been telling the Gospel thousands of years before the Christ visited the planet a couple of thousand years ago, it is clear coincidence has nothing to do with any part of creation.
    " ...it is clear coincidence has nothing to do with any part of creation."

    The Ultimate Conspiracy? But doesn't a conspiracy require at least two conspirators? Manichaeans unite!
  7. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    06 Oct '17 12:38
    Originally posted by @js357
    " ...it is clear coincidence has nothing to do with any part of creation."

    The Ultimate Conspiracy? But doesn't a conspiracy require at least two conspirators? Manichaeans unite!
    Conspiracy includes the element of illegal or immoral behavior.
    So it's kind of hard to make a case for a conspiracy to create life.
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    06 Oct '17 13:07 / 2 edits
    Looking to the future we can talk of probability / ies but that only works as long as we appreciate that probabilities allow for a number of alternative futures, each with its own probability, which may or may not be calculable. A probabilistic future is not a certain future - if it were, it would not be probabilistic, it would be certain.

    Looking to the past we can't talk of probability in the same way, because what presently exists is in fact certain, not a probability.

    Things are as they are and that is the basic fact of existence.

    It may be surprising that things are thus and not different but it is not surprising that, given our existence, things are thus. And this conversation only takes place because our existence is already a given. Our existence and the conditions of our existence are necessary conditions for us to discuss - and be surprised by - our existence.

    Myriads of accidents have had the cumulative consequence of the present being what it is.

    The idea that these were somehow lined up from the outset with the intention or for the purpose of putting us where we are today is worse than absurd, it is nonsensical, because the sequence of cause and effect is not intrinsically inevitable. The same initial conditions could have produced countless alternatives. We are "determined" by our histories but the same histories could have determined different outcomes.

    The only certainty that can exist is retrospective - what has happened did happen, what exists does exist.

    Having said that, the present is certain and for that reason the history of the present is determined, it is describable and even explicable in terms of a chain of causes and effects. Science has demonstrated a capacity to supply excellent and richly informative descriptions and explanations of that history. Science is still developing but there is no good reason to abandon Scientific explanations and revert to more primitive mythologies, despite their cultural interest and appeal. What there is room to do is appreciate where mythology fits into our psychological natures and needs, the functions they served in our histories and their possible future functions, for better or worse.
  9. Standard member vivify
    rain
    06 Oct '17 13:35
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    The idea that intelligent design exists has merit, but it falls apart immediately when the current religions (namely, Christianity) try to claim their deity is responsible. Claims made by or extrapolated from the bible (age of the earth, global flood, man returning to "dust", etc.) have all been refuted.

    I think ID could be taken at least a bit more seriously if:
    a) A current religion didn't shoehorn in their "designer"
    b) If ID included a possibility of multiple designers.
    c) If the designers didn't have to be all powerful or even still alive

    There wasn't one all-powerful human but many humans that designed our roads, internet, etc. It took many humans. And most of those people are no longer alive. *If* ID was indeed responsible for our existence, this seems more likely than one all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal deity.
  10. 06 Oct '17 13:36
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    I used to think that it was an amazing coincidence that one side of the moon always faces the Earth until I found out about "tidal locking". Not so amazing.
  11. 06 Oct '17 14:36
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    Conspiracy includes the element of illegal or immoral behavior.
    So it's kind of hard to make a case for a conspiracy to create life.
    "Conspiracy includes the element of illegal or immoral behavior.
    So it's kind of hard to make a case for a conspiracy to create life."

    Was there immoral behavior before life came along?
  12. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    06 Oct '17 15:16
    Originally posted by @js357
    "Conspiracy includes the element of illegal or immoral behavior.
    So it's kind of hard to make a case for a conspiracy to create life."

    Was there immoral behavior before life came along?
    Goodness.
    This is your idea of logical thinking?
  13. 06 Oct '17 15:47
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    Darwin done it.
  14. 06 Oct '17 15:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It could just be me, but it seems like our Moon is WAY bigger than it should be for a planet of our size. If you look at satellite-to-planet mass ratios for the largest moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and then the Earth, the values are on the order of 10−510−5 for Jupiter, 10−410−4 for Saturn, 10−510−5 for Uranus, 10−410−4 for Neptune, but a whoppi ...[text shortened]... e work of his hands.


    http://earthsky.org/space/coincidence-that-sun-and-moon-seem-same-size
    Well it does not end there.

    Read fine tuning the universe.

    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html

    The Big Bang had to bang just so, or none of this would be.
  15. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    06 Oct '17 16:19
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Well it does not end there.

    Read fine tuning the universe.

    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html

    The Big Bang had to bang just so, or none of this would be.
    More happy accidents than atoms in the universe.