Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    10 May '09 02:38
    "US DJ banned from UK"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/05/090506_shockjocky_nh_ca.shtml (AUDIO CONTENT)

    "Profile: Michael Savage"
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8035449.stm

    "US 'hate list' DJ to sue Britain"
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8035114.stm"

    The list of announced exclusions:


    "Who is on UK 'least wanted' list?

    Sixteen people banned from entering the UK since October last year for fostering extremism or hatred have been named by the Home Office for the first time.

    A total of 22 people have been excluded in that time, although the identities of six of them have been withheld by the government in the "public interest". The named individuals are:

    ABDULLAH QADRI AL AHDAL

    Preacher. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and fostering hatred that might lead to inter-community violence.

    YUNIS AL ASTAL

    Preacher and Hamas MP. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to terrorist acts.

    STEPHEN DONALD BLACK

    Former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard who set up racist website Stormfront. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by promoting serious criminal activity and fostering hatred that might lead to inter-community violence in the UK.

    WADGY ABD EL HAMIED MOHAMED GHONEIM

    A prolific speaker and writer. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glory terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to commit terrorist acts.

    ERIC GLIEBE

    Neo-Nazi. Has made web-radio broadcasts in which he vilifies certain ethnic groups and encourages the download and distribution of provocative racist leaflets and posters. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by justifying terrorist violence, provoking others to commit serious crime and fostering racial hatred.

    MIKE GUZOVSKY

    Jewish militant. Leader of a violent group and actively involved with military training camps. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to terrorist acts.

    SAFWAT HIJAZI

    Television preacher. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by glorifying terrorist violence.

    NASR JAVED

    Kashmiri militant group leader. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs.

    ABDUL ALI MUSA

    Muslim activist, previously known as Clarence Reams. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fomenting and glorifying terrorist violence in furtherance of his particular beliefs and seeking to provoke others to terrorist acts.

    FRED WALDRON PHELPS SNR & SHIRLEY PHELPS-ROPER

    American pastor and leading spokesman of Westboro Baptist Church. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fostering hatred that might lead to inter-community violence in the UK. The 79-year-old and his daughter are barred for their anti-gay comments. Both have picketed the funerals of Aids victims and have claimed the deaths of American soldiers are a punishment for US tolerance of homosexuality.

    SAMIR AL QUNTAR

    Hezbollah militant. Spent three decades in prison for killing four soldiers and a four-year-old girl. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to terrorist acts.

    ARTUR RYNO & RAVEL SKACHEVSKY

    Leaders of a violent Russian skinhead gang that beat migrants and posted films of their attacks on the internet, and committed 20 racially motivated murders. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fomenting serious criminal activity and seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts. Both are currently in prison.

    AMIR SIDDIQUE

    Preacher. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fomenting terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs.

    MICHAEL ALAN WEINER (a.k.a MICHAEL SAVAGE)

    Controversial daily radio talk-show host. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts and fostering hatred which might lead to inter-community violence. His views on immigration, Islam, rape and autism have caused great offence in the US.

    from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8033319.stm

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------------------------



    What are people's thoughts about lists like this?

    What are people's thoughts about any of the people included on this list?
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    10 May '09 03:11 / 2 edits
    Savage is a clown. Most of what he says is for shock value only. He's little more than a comedian. If you've ever listened to him (and most of you probably haven't), you'd realize that he doesn't even take himself seriously, let alone mean for others to do so. He's the political talk show equivalent of Howard Stern.

    To ban him is absurd and is as good an example of being uptight and politically correct.
  3. 10 May '09 03:21
    Originally posted by FMF
    "US DJ banned from UK"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/05/090506_shockjocky_nh_ca.shtml (AUDIO CONTENT)

    "Profile: Michael Savage"
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8035449.stm

    "US 'hate list' DJ to sue Britain"
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8035114.stm"

    The list of announced exclusions:


    [b]"Who is on UK 'least wanted' list?[ ...[text shortened]... is?

    What are people's thoughts about any of the people included on this list?
    interesting list. FOX news released it a couple of days ago. thats when i first heard of it. As far as stephen black,is the KKK in the UK ? If so why? and if thats the case they are more deluded than i thought. michael savage I find hilarious in small doses on late night talk radio. he has a lot of facts but can twist them. his info needs to be taken w/a grain of salt.Lumping him w/the likes of Samir Al Quntar is a bit of a stretch for me. AS far as the purpose or reasoning behind this list its hard for me to judge living under a differnt system of gov. then found in the UK. It does seem a bit broad though,and could be setting a dangerous prescedent
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    10 May '09 03:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    AS far as the purpose or reasoning behind this list its hard for me to judge living under a differnt system of gov. then found in the UK. It does seem a bit broad though,and could be setting a dangerous prescedent
    Presumably you are equally concerned about similar exclusion policies instituted because of/despite your country's system of government?

    Same question is intended for you sh76
  5. 10 May '09 03:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    Presumably you are equally concerned about similar exclusion policies instituted because of/despite your country's system of government?

    Same question is intended for you sh76
    such as.......
  6. 10 May '09 03:39
    Originally posted by sh76
    Savage is a clown. Most of what he says is for shock value only. He's little more than a comedian. If you've ever listened to him (and most of you probably haven't), you'd realize that he doesn't even take himself seriously, let alone mean for others to do so. He's the political talk show equivalent of Howard Stern.

    To ban him is absurd and is as good an example of being uptight and politically correct.
    nice comparison w/ savage to stern didnt think of that one
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    10 May '09 03:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    such as.......
    Off the top of my head...

    Musicologist, Professor Nalini Ghuman

    British journalist Robert Fisk

    Holocaust revisionist historian David Irving

    Playwright Harold Pinter (recently deceased)

    Musician Cat Stevens

    Novelist Ian McEwan

    Canadian gay couple, Joe Varnell and Kevin Bourassa

    Tariq Ramadan, professor of Islamic studies, Oxford University in Great Britain

    I think there are about 24,000 people on the U.S.A. "watch list"
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    10 May '09 03:53
    Originally posted by sh76
    [Savage is] the political talk show equivalent of Howard Stern.
    Does Stern incite violence?
  9. 10 May '09 03:57
    Originally posted by sh76
    Savage is a clown. Most of what he says is for shock value only. He's little more than a comedian. If you've ever listened to him (and most of you probably haven't), you'd realize that he doesn't even take himself seriously, let alone mean for others to do so. He's the political talk show equivalent of Howard Stern.

    To ban him is absurd and is as good an example of being uptight and politically correct.
    I agree with you that Savage is a clown. The problem is that he's the scary kind of clown, not the funny kind of clown.

    A huge difference between him and Stern is that Stern is occasionally funny. If Savage is trying to be funny, he hides it amazingly.

    I don't think this is being "politically correct", but I don't out of principle agree with banning him.

    I have listened to his show and I've heard him advocate banning body piercing, tattoos, the quran, islam... and there wasn't really any hint of humor there.

    If he's trying for humor, it's definitely pretty hateful humor.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    10 May '09 04:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Presumably you are equally concerned about similar exclusion policies instituted because of/despite your country's system of government?

    Same question is intended for you sh76
    Yes, I don't like this sort of thing. Maybe it's my being too used to the First Amendment; but I don't like the government banning anyone because of what they say on the air unless they make specific threats.

    The Brandenburg standard (incitement is only unprotected by the First Amendment if it's intended to cause imminent lawless action and is likely to cause imminent lawless action) makes more sense to me. Then again, this is what I learned in law school and maybe I'm just not used to the European system.
  11. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    10 May '09 04:04
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I agree with you that Savage is a clown. The problem is that he's the scary kind of clown, not the funny kind of clown.

    A huge difference between him and Stern is that Stern is occasionally funny. If Savage is trying to be funny, he hides it amazingly.

    I don't think this is being "politically correct", but I don't out of principle agree with bannin ...[text shortened]... int of humor there.

    If he's trying for humor, it's definitely pretty hateful humor.
    You think he's serious when he advocates banning tattoos?

    He simply takes whatever position is most likely to shock the listener.
  12. 10 May '09 04:07
    Originally posted by sh76
    You think he's serious when he advocates banning tattoos?

    He simply takes whatever position is most likely to shock the listener.
    I don't know if he's serious.

    I certainly don't think he's trying to be funny. If he's trying to be satirically funny then he's pretty piss-poor at it.

    If he's serious, then he deserves to be off the air for being hateful.

    If he's not serious, then he deserves to be off the air for being so horrible that it hurts.
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    10 May '09 04:07
    Originally posted by FMF
    Off the top of my head...

    Musicologist, Professor Nalini Ghuman

    British journalist Robert Fisk

    Holocaust revisionist historian David Irving

    Playwright Harold Pinter (recently deceased)

    Musician Cat Stevens

    Novelist Ian McEwan

    Canadian gay couple, Joe Varnell and Kevin Bourassa

    Tariq Ramadan, professor of Islamic studies, Oxford University in Great Britain

    I think there are about 24,000 people on the U.S.A. "watch list"
    Were those people "banned" from something? Or are they just on some watch list?
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    10 May '09 04:08
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I don't know if he's serious.

    I certainly don't think he's trying to be funny. If he's trying to be satirically funny then he's pretty piss-poor at it.

    If he's serious, then he deserves to be off the air for being hateful.

    If he's not serious, then he deserves to be off the air for being so horrible that it hurts.
    What he "deserves" and what the government ought to enforce are two separate issues.
  15. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    10 May '09 04:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    The Brandenburg standard (incitement is only unprotected by the First Amendment if it's intended to cause imminent lawless action and is likely to cause imminent lawless action) makes more sense to me. Then again, this is what I learned in law school and maybe I'm just not used to the European system.
    That's interesting. But, Holocaust revisionist historian David Irving, for example, was banned from entering the U.S. by the U.S. system, not by the European system. Sorry if my list of "people banned from entering the USA" was in some way unclear or seemed to make you suddenly realise that you are not used to the European system.

    Were those people "banned" from something?

    Yes. At some point in the last 4-5 years.

    Didn't you realise that academics, artists, musicians and 'political opponents' are routinely banned from the USA?