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Debates Forum

  1. 10 Nov '10 09:34
    Here is how the muzzies treat non-believers in Pakistan whilst we allow them to do and say what they like in Europe.
    We do not even deport convicted murderers and terrorists after they have served their jail sentences for fear of breaching their 'human rights'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/8120142/Christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-Pakistan-for-blasphemy.html
  2. 10 Nov '10 10:10
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    Here is how the muzzies treat non-believers in Pakistan whilst we allow them to do and say what they like in Europe.
    We do not even deport convicted murderers and terrorists after they have served their jail sentences for fear of breaching their 'human rights'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/8120142/Christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-Pakistan-for-blasphemy.html
    Moderate Germans.

    Here is how the Germans treat the Jews: (insert details about WW2), whilst we allow Germans to do and say what they like in South Africa.

    (If I knew your nationality or religion, I could target you even better).
  3. 10 Nov '10 10:40
    Moderate British

    Here's the kind of thread opened by British people while we allow them to say what they want on the forums.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    10 Nov '10 14:52 / 3 edits
    WW2 is not occurring right now. Is that not a salient difference?
  5. 10 Nov '10 15:01
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    Here is how the muzzies treat non-believers in Pakistan whilst we allow them to do and say what they like in Europe.
    We do not even deport convicted murderers and terrorists after they have served their jail sentences for fear of breaching their 'human rights'.
    That is because we in Britain and Europe believe in human rights and free speech. Those are the values on the basis of which which we can claim that our social organisation is preferable to that in Pakistan.
  6. 10 Nov '10 15:45
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    That is because we in Britain and Europe believe in human rights and free speech. Those are the values on the basis of which which we can claim that our social organisation is preferable to that in Pakistan.
    It's rather funny if you disect what Sartor Resartus is actually saying in the OP.

    1. In Pakistan, human rights are violated. This is bad.
    2. In Britain, human rights are respected. This is bad.

    Bipolar disorder, I guess.
  7. Standard member Agerg
    The 'edit'or
    10 Nov '10 17:38 / 2 edits
    error...post retracted
  8. 10 Nov '10 17:41
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Moderate Germans.

    Here is how the Germans treat the Jews: (insert details about WW2), whilst we allow Germans to do and say what they like in South Africa.

    (If I knew your nationality or religion, I could target you even better).
    yes, lets pretend religion and nationality are two perfectly comparable traits.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Nov '10 00:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    It's rather funny if you disect what Sartor Resartus is actually saying in the OP.

    1. In Pakistan, human rights are violated. This is bad.
    2. In Britain, human rights are respected. This is bad.

    Bipolar disorder, I guess.
    Actually what I took SR's OP to mean was:

    1) In Britain, people sacrifice their safety to respect Islam, presumably at least partially in the hopes that such will be returned in kind in terms of respect of Western dogma by Islamic countries.

    2) In Pakistan, they have utter contempt for non-Islamic religions and ideologies and show them no respect, making our sacrifice of security in the same of appeasing Islamic radicalism useless and therefore not worth it.

    Now, we can debate the merits of the assertion, but, and SR can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe this is a fairer characterization of his point.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Nov '10 01:10
    Originally posted by sh76
    Actually what I took SR's OP to mean was:

    1) In Britain, people sacrifice their safety to respect Islam, presumably at least partially in the hopes that such will be returned in kind in terms of respect of Western dogma by Islamic countries.

    2) In Pakistan, they have utter contempt for non-Islamic religions and ideologies and show them no respect, making ...[text shortened]... and SR can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe this is a fairer characterization of his point.
    How exactly do people in Britain "sacrifice their safety to respect Islam"?
  11. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Nov '10 04:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    How exactly do people in Britain "sacrifice their safety to respect Islam"?
    That's not my position; it's my reading of SR's.

    In any case, every "free" society balances freedom against security. Some security is sacrificed in the name of freedom (and vice versa). Observing that western countries do so more than does, say, Pakistan, is perfectly reasonable.

    By "respect Islam" I mean respect the rights of people to practice Islam without being subjected to increased scrutiny that strict security considerations might warrant.

    Now, of course I'm not in favor of adopting the same intolerant policies of Pakistan and other central Asian and Middle Eastern countries and I applaud Britain and other western countries for not being sucked into the intolerance for security mindset. However, I was pointing out that KN's assertion that SR was lamenting tolerance in Britain was not strictly accurate.
  12. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    11 Nov '10 06:30
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    Here is how the muzzies treat non-believers in Pakistan whilst we allow them to do and say what they like in Europe.
    We do not even deport convicted murderers and terrorists after they have served their jail sentences for fear of breaching their 'human rights'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/8120142/Christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-Pakistan-for-blasphemy.html
    That title was so hard for you to write that you couldn't even spell it properly.
  13. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    11 Nov '10 07:55
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    That title was so hard for you to write that you couldn't even spell it properly.
    Or use syntax that indicates whether "moderate" (I'll drop the comma before the e) is a noun a verb or an adjective.
  14. 11 Nov '10 13:25
    Originally posted by sh76
    Actually what I took SR's OP to mean was:

    1) In Britain, people sacrifice their safety to respect Islam, presumably at least partially in the hopes that such will be returned in kind in terms of respect of Western dogma by Islamic countries.

    2) In Pakistan, they have utter contempt for non-Islamic religions and ideologies and show them no respect, making ...[text shortened]... and SR can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe this is a fairer characterization of his point.
    Precisely.
  15. 11 Nov '10 13:43
    Originally posted by sh76
    WW2 is not occurring right now. Is that not a salient difference?
    No, I don't think so.
    Sartor Resartus seemed to be saying that the bad behavior of one group of people, should be used as an excuse to deport another group of people that have something in common (in this case their religion). I don't see why they should also have time in common. If his argument is valid then it should be applicable to any groups of people that have something in common whether race, nationality or religion. If not, then he needs to start by building an argument as to why their shared religion should be used to transfer blame.