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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    30 Mar '14 20:36
    I suppose, if you're riding a slow-motion, fiery, airship as it plummets to earth, certain catastrophe imminent, you may have time to ponder the humor in seeing the passenger next to you have his hair get mussed. So, in the theater of the absurd that is the Obama White House, we have this gem:

    http://o.dailycaller.com/all/2014-03-28-white-house-looks-to-regulate-cow-flatulence-as-part-of-climate-agenda#1

    That's right. Obama wants to ban cow farts. Certainly, on one level, their olfactory offensiveness has an effect on passers by and those diner waitresses and barkeeps who have the misfortune of working near a dairy farm, and whose workers patronize their establishments without first having stopped to remove the offending material from their persons. But really folks - cow farting is a huge world problem, and Obama is on the job.

    Since cows fart methane, and methane is a greenhouse gas, and greenhouse gases cause global warming, and Joe Biden has said that global warming is a weapon of mass destruction, I think all cows should be labelled as terrorists. They should have their communications monitored, and Obama should order drone strikes against them.

    This may be a way for Obama to save his presidency. After being out-everythinged abroad by dictators, despots, and tyrants both large and small, while simultaneously managing to classify fully one-half of all Americans as his mortal enemies, who must be subject to state censure and oppression, he needs a life raft and a win. Maybe by getting tough on cow farts, and working to eliminate this insidious, destructive evil, he can restore America to its former glory.
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    30 Mar '14 20:48
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    I suppose, if you're riding a slow-motion, fiery, airship as it plummets to earth, certain catastrophe imminent, you may have time to ponder the humor in seeing the passenger next to you have his hair get mussed. So, in the theater of the absurd that is the Obama White House, we have this gem:

    http://o.dailycaller.com/all/2014-03-28-white-house-look ...[text shortened]... rking to eliminate this insidious, destructive evil, he can restore America to its former glory.
    Since it's a sasquatch thread about Obama, it hardly needs to be said that it is hysterical nonsense.

    The actual proposal is his: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/03/28/fact-sheet-climate-action-plan-strategy-cut-methane-emissions

    I suggest people read it and consider whether it is as ridiculous as the Strawman created by the right wingers at the Daily Caller (unfortunately for them they actually provided a link to the proposal though I'm sure they knew that reflexive Obama haters like sas wouldn't bother to use it).
  3. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    30 Mar '14 21:01
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Since it's a sasquatch thread about Obama, it hardly needs to be said that it is hysterical nonsense.

    The actual proposal is his: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/03/28/fact-sheet-climate-action-plan-strategy-cut-methane-emissions

    I suggest people read it and consider whether it is as ridiculous as the Strawman cre ...[text shortened]... posal though I'm sure they knew that reflexive Obama haters like sas wouldn't bother to use it).
    No1 - simple yes or no answer. The EPA wants to impose methane emission limits on the dairy industry. Yes or no?
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    30 Mar '14 21:18
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    No1 - simple yes or no answer. The EPA wants to impose methane emission limits on the dairy industry. Yes or no?
    Simple answer? No. From the fact sheet:

    In June, in partnership with the dairy industry, the USDA, EPA and DOE will jointly release a “Biogas Roadmap” outlining voluntary strategies to accelerate adoption of methane digesters and other cost-effective technologies to reduce U.S. dairy sector greenhouse gas emissions by 25 percent by 2020.
  5. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    30 Mar '14 21:30 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Simple answer? No. From the fact sheet:

    In June, in partnership with the dairy industry, the USDA, EPA and DOE will jointly release a “Biogas Roadmap” outlining [b]voluntary
    strategies to accelerate adoption of methane digesters and other cost-effective technologies to reduce U.S. dairy sector greenhouse gas emissions by 25 percent by 2020.[/b]
    So, in other words, Obama wants to ban cow farting.
  6. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Mar '14 21:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So, in other words, Obama wants to ban cow farting.
    So opposition to Obama (who as far as I know will not stand for re-election anyway so may not care that much) depends on lies or misrepresentation or plain stupidity does it? You cannot limit yourself to intelligent or informed comment, which would presumably fail to achieve very much. As a strategy it clearly works but what a dismal way to operate. If I could only preserve my point of view by telling lies I would not understand the point of continuing. As a minimum, I feel that I ought to at least believe my own arguments.
  7. Standard member vivify
    rain
    30 Mar '14 21:38
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So, in other words, Obama wants to ban cow farting.
    It's not a ban if it's voluntary.
  8. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    30 Mar '14 21:45
    Originally posted by finnegan
    So opposition to Obama (who as far as I know will not stand for re-election anyway so may not care that much) depends on lies or misrepresentation or plain stupidity does it? You cannot limit yourself to intelligent or informed comment, which would presumably fail to achieve very much. As a strategy it clearly works but what a dismal way to operate. If I co ...[text shortened]... the point of continuing. As a minimum, I feel that I ought to at least believe my own arguments.
    Mmm. Lies. Let's talk about lies.

    Obama told the American public no fewer than 36 times, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

    Obama, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, and a host of others told the American public that the American consulate in Benghazi was attacked and four Americans were murdered because of Muslim outrage over a video.

    Attorney General Eric Holder hasn't told any lies about Operation Fast And Furious because he simply hasn't said anything. For this, he still lives in contempt of Congress. Of course, were he to say anything, he would eventually have to acknowledge that he and elements of the executive branch conducted a highly illegal gunrunning operation.

    Lois Lerner has also not talked about her involvement in the IRS deliberately and systematically targeting conservative political speech groups.

    The Director of the CIA absolutely and unequivocally lied to Congress about the mass surveillance of Americans.

    So, yes. By all means, I'd welcome a discussion about lies.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    30 Mar '14 22:03
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So, in other words, Obama wants to ban cow farting.
    You're not stupid, you know that no one would attempt to ban or regulate such a thing. Why dishonestly pretend otherwise?
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    30 Mar '14 22:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Mmm. Lies. Let's talk about lies.

    Obama told the American public no fewer than 36 times, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

    Obama, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, and a host of others told the American public that the American consulate in Benghazi was attacked and four Americans were murdered because of Muslim outrage over a vide ...[text shortened]... mass surveillance of Americans.

    So, yes. By all means, I'd welcome a discussion about lies.
    sas: Obama, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, and a host of others told the American public that the American consulate in Benghazi was attacked and four Americans were murdered because of Muslim outrage over a video.

    And they were right as the people at the scene told reporters and as the NY Times investigation published in December confirmed:

    Months of investigation by The New York Times, centered on extensive interviews with Libyans in Benghazi who had direct knowledge of the attack there and its context, turned up no evidence that Al Qaeda or other international terrorist groups had any role in the assault. The attack was led, instead, by fighters who had benefited directly from NATO’s extensive air power and logistics support during the uprising against Colonel Qaddafi. And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anger at the video motivated the initial attack. Dozens of people joined in, some of them provoked by the video and others responding to fast-spreading false rumors that guards inside the American compound had shot Libyan protesters. Looters and arsonists, without any sign of a plan, were the ones who ravaged the compound after the initial attack, according to more than a dozen Libyan witnesses as well as many American officials who have viewed the footage from security cameras.

    http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/#/?chapt=0
  11. Standard member vivify
    rain
    30 Mar '14 23:04
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Mmm. Lies. Let's talk about lies.

    Obama told the American public no fewer than 36 times, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

    Obama, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, and a host of others told the American public that the American consulate in Benghazi was attacked and four Americans were murdered because of Muslim outrage over a vide ...[text shortened]... mass surveillance of Americans.

    So, yes. By all means, I'd welcome a discussion about lies.
    So because you believe someone has lied, that's your excuse to lie to?
  12. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Mar '14 23:06
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Mmm. Lies. Let's talk about lies.

    Obama told the American public no fewer than 36 times, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

    Obama, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, and a host of others told the American public that the American consulate in Benghazi was attacked and four Americans were murdered because of Muslim outrage over a vide ...[text shortened]... mass surveillance of Americans.

    So, yes. By all means, I'd welcome a discussion about lies.
    You mistake me for someone who cares about Obama. I don't especially. I have major criticisms of him and his presidency has been a huge disappointment. It does not follow that I favour his political opponents on the right. I am to the left of his neo-liberal, militaristic nationalism.

    So his lies are really not relevant to my point. I am interested in the use of lies on this forum. Let's talk about if you and I can avoid telling lies. Then it might be possible to have a meaningful debate about something significant.
  13. 31 Mar '14 01:30
    Originally posted by vivify
    It's not a ban if it's voluntary.
    How do you get a cow to volunteer to refrain from flatulence?
  14. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    31 Mar '14 03:17 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    You're not stupid, you know that no one would attempt to ban or regulate such a thing. Why dishonestly pretend otherwise?
    A few points. First, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree about Benghazi. I hope you'll understand if I don't take the assertions of the flamingly liberal New York Times as gospel.

    Second, if I mixed a sense of humor (I thought I was funny, anyway) with some hyperbole, I embellished only just. The essential elements of the point remain: no folly shall remain unpursued by this silly little man; no opportunity to diminish his own stature, the prestige of the office he holds, or the power and influence of the United States, shall be missed. Precisely how does one ensure that the program's goal of a 25% reduction in methane emissions is achieved? Is there a a group of unlucky cows somewhere that will have gas meters hooked up to their asses? How does one assure that the meters will not become clogged by - ahem - solid matter? Somewhere in Washington, a young, idealistic government functionary is earnestly and sincerely considering the answers to these very questions. Don't you see how quickly this exercise acquires the air of the absurd? Are these truly the troubles of our times? Cow farts?
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Mar '14 03:46
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    A few points. First, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree about Benghazi. I hope you'll understand if I don't take the assertions of the flamingly liberal New York Times as gospel.

    Second, if I mixed a sense of humor (I thought I was funny, anyway) with some hyperbole, I embellished only just. The essential elements of the point remain ...[text shortened]... exercise acquires the air of the absurd? Are these truly the troubles of our times? Cow farts?
    I suggest you actually read the Times investigation. The same thing was reported at the time by Reuters i.e. that the attackers at the scene told reporters that the reason for the attack was the video (I posted the link in one of the threads here though last I checked it didn't work anymore). That only makes sense; there had been huge demonstrations at the American Embassy in neighboring Egypt which were shown on Libyan TV.

    Maybe you are stupid; the reduction of methane emissions by 25% doesn't require the measures you are referring to. Nobody is thinking about them; it's just an attempt to ridicule a very worthwhile goal which the government is trying to achieve in cooperation with private industry. Good for them; the EPA has by and large done a fine job during its existence - we have cleaner water and air because of them.