Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    14 Sep '16 13:593 edits
    Let's take a little RHP poll.

    How would you answer each of the following 4 questions (no caveats):

    1. All else (time of day, neighborhood, lack of crowd) being equal, if you were walking down a deserted street late at night, and a young scowling man in a hoodie were walking towards you, would you be more nervous if the man were white, more nervous if the man were black or equally nervous either way?

    2. All else being equal, is a random Latino person more likely to be an illegal immigrant than a random white or black or Asian person?

    3, All else being equal and if you were conducting a business negotiation, would you be more wary if the party you were negotiating with were Jewish, less wary or equally wary?

    4. If you had to pick the winner of a 100 yard dash between 3 people of equal height weight, build and age, one being black, one Asian and one white and your life depended on picking the winner, would you pick one at random or would you bet on any of the three specifically? If so, which one?
  2. Joined
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    14 Sep '16 14:19
    Originally posted by sh76
    Let's take a little RHP poll.

    How would you answer each of the following 4 questions (no caveats):

    1. All else (time of day, neighborhood, lack of crowd) being equal, if you were walking down a deserted street late at night, and a young scowling man in a hoodie were walking towards you, would you be more nervous if the man were white, more nervous if the ...[text shortened]... ould you pick one at random or would you bet on any of the three specifically? If so, which one?
    1. as a side note, if he is scowling, i would more likely assume he is upset after a long day at work/school/ looking for a job

    equally nervous. it's a man wearing a hoodie, late at night. that is worrying, not that he has darker/lighter skin.

    2. don't know what the point of this question is. i guess more likely if you are living in florida, less likely if you are living in new york or idaho.

    3. moving into anti-semitism territory. first of all, how would that person's jewish religion come up? and second of all, if one is so retarded as to believe stereotypes about jews being shifty, most likely that person would have been out of business long before that hypothetical business negotiation.

    i say this is a trick questions, dumb people seldom have to conduct business negotiations.

    4. in this hypothetical situation, i would assume my Saw X franchise psychopath expects me to play on stereotypes and teach me a lesson so i would pick at random between the white dude and the asian dude.

    otherwise, if the situation was truly random, i would pick at random between the 3.


    cute game. now let us know what great insights into our psyche you have gathered.
  3. Joined
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    14 Sep '16 15:31
    Originally posted by sh76
    Let's take a little RHP poll.

    How would you answer each of the following 4 questions (no caveats):

    1. All else (time of day, neighborhood, lack of crowd) being equal, if you were walking down a deserted street late at night, and a young scowling man in a hoodie were walking towards you, would you be more nervous if the man were white, more nervous if the ...[text shortened]... ould you pick one at random or would you bet on any of the three specifically? If so, which one?
    1.Statistics say black;
    2.Statistics say Latino;
    3.No difference;
    4.Statistics say black
  4. Cape Town
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    14 Sep '16 15:411 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    1. All else (time of day, neighborhood, lack of crowd) being equal,
    But which country?

    And please pose all the same questions but include the option of man or woman.
  5. Joined
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    14 Sep '16 16:191 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Let's take a little RHP poll.

    How would you answer each of the following 4 questions (no caveats):

    1. All else (time of day, neighborhood, lack of crowd) being equal, if you were walking down a deserted street late at night, and a young scowling man in a hoodie were walking towards you, would you be more nervous if the man were white, more nervous if the ...[text shortened]... ould you pick one at random or would you bet on any of the three specifically? If so, which one?
    "Clinton was right" with or without quotes gets a lot of hits on google search. Here is one:

    https://thinkprogress.org/is-hillary-clinton-right-about-trump-supporters-this-is-what-the-polling-data-says-2b37625a1df3#.17ldljib2

    "But whether Clinton is correct is a factual matter. Let’s look at the polling data."

    Unfortunately the data is not copy/pastable into this thread.

    I think it might be useful to ask the same questions of ourselves. But direct hypothetical questions might not tell the whole story.
  6. Hmmm . . .
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    14 Sep '16 16:56
    Originally posted by JS357
    "Clinton was right" with or without quotes gets a lot of hits on google search. Here is one:

    https://thinkprogress.org/is-hillary-clinton-right-about-trump-supporters-this-is-what-the-polling-data-says-2b37625a1df3#.17ldljib2

    "But whether Clinton is correct is a factual matter. Let’s look at the polling data."

    Unfortunately the data is not copy/pastab ...[text shortened]... e same questions of ourselves. But direct hypothetical questions might not tell the whole story.
    From your cited article:

    “So when Hillary Clinton says half of Trump supporters hold bigoted views, she may be understating the issue.”

    “The polling data reveals that there is a substantial number of Trump supporters who are bigoted, intolerant, or worse.

    “Is the percentage, as Clinton suggested, about 50 percent? That depends on how you define the various forms of bigotry within the Trump coalition. But, based on the polling, Clinton appears to be more likely to be downplaying the issue than overstating it.”

    According to a recent Time article, Trump supporters are estimated at around 50 million. (http://time.com/4486437/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/)

    So, yes, the data indicates that millions of Trump supporters are bigots. One can, of course, raise the complaint of “statistical discrimination”—which one can equally well raise in Sh76’s game (of course, it would be hypocritical to raise that complaint in one case and not the other).
  7. Hmmm . . .
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    14 Sep '16 16:57
    Originally posted by sh76
    Let's take a little RHP poll.

    How would you answer each of the following 4 questions (no caveats):

    1. All else (time of day, neighborhood, lack of crowd) being equal, if you were walking down a deserted street late at night, and a young scowling man in a hoodie were walking towards you, would you be more nervous if the man were white, more nervous if the ...[text shortened]... ould you pick one at random or would you bet on any of the three specifically? If so, which one?
    Appropriate comments/caveats are included (whether you wanted them or not)—including the one raised in my response to JS357 above.

    1. Equally

    2. Latino.

    —(a) Latino versus black/white?

    —(b) Geographical location in the US would seem to have some bearing.

    3. Equally.

    —Based on both my general personal experience with both Jews and gentiles, and some years involved in such negotiations in a very specific area.

    4. Given equal training, event-specific fitness, etc., there’s no way of knowing. My guess is that the question assumes that greater numbers of blacks train for that specific event. (Demonstrating my ignorance here—a choice based on ignorance will end up being random.) Are there really general physiological differences?

    —How about a marathon? How about gymnasts? How about swimmers? Would you bet on a given quarterback based on race/ethnicity—all else given? Do you think such a bet would be less random (in actual likely outcome) than one based on an astrological superstition?
  8. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    14 Sep '16 17:04
    My point in general is that many of these surveys that purport to determine whether society is racist ask questions like this.

    I don't think that any answer to any of these questions inherently makes someone "racist" or a bad person.

    The fact is that, for whatever myriad of reasons, the median black American is more likely to commit a violent crime than the median white American, etc. Obviously, that doesn't mean anyone should be treated differently. But being cognizant of that doesn't make someone a racist or a bad person.

    “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

    - Guess who said this (hint: a person who's unlikely to be an anti-black racist)
  9. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    14 Sep '16 17:06
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    But which country?

    And please pose all the same questions but include the option of man or woman.
    I don't think there's the same social stigma attached to anti-male stereotyping. I think the vast majority of people would admit to being more nervous about being the victim of a violent crime by a man than by a woman (obviously, a perfectly rational thought process).
  10. Joined
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    14 Sep '16 17:33
    Any non-random subset of a population is likely to have characteristics that are different from the general population. Therefore, different racial groups (as a non-random groups) will have varying characteristic such as athleticism, work ethic, charitably or work ethic.
    You are simply not a racist for believing the truth.
  11. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    14 Sep '16 18:14
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Any non-random subset of a population is likely to have characteristics that are different from the general population. Therefore, different racial groups (as a non-random groups) will have varying characteristic such as athleticism, work ethic, charitably or work ethic.
    You are simply not a racist for believing the truth.
    Would, for example, "people born on Tuesday" be a random or non-random subset?
  12. Cape Town
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    14 Sep '16 19:07
    Originally posted by sh76
    I don't think there's the same social stigma attached to anti-male stereotyping.
    Still, it is worth exploring.
  13. Cape Town
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    14 Sep '16 19:121 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    My point in general is that many of these surveys that purport to determine whether society is racist ask questions like this.
    I agree, and I questioned the surveys mentioned in the other thread. The questions were not as you have posed above.
    Further, the results were compared between different sets of voters using the same questions, so at a minimum they were able to show greater bias amongst Trump supporters. At what point bias can be labelled racism is highly questionable.

    Where I live in Cape Town, my black neighbour assured me that he gets nervous when encountering a group of black men in a nearby area. Is he racist? No. Is he biased? Most definitely yes, and for good reason.

    Have we seen some Trump supporters on this forum behave in a racist manner? Yes.
    Are all the Trump supporters on this forum racist? I sure hope not.
  14. Joined
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    14 Sep '16 19:15
    Originally posted by sh76
    Would, for example, "people born on Tuesday" be a random or non-random subset?
    In statistics, the randomness of a sample is an important issue. I initially thought that there is no reason to believe that babies born on one day would have different characteristics than babies born on a different day. However, then I thought that with the emphasis of scheduled deliveries at times convenient for the doctor/ hospital perhaps the middle of the week is more likely to have certain type of people give birth than others. Thus, I don't know the statistics but it seems that someone who does, could give an opinion on the different subgroups and we should not brand that person a racist simply because they commented on the difference between sub-populations characteristics.
  15. Cape Town
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    14 Sep '16 20:16
    Originally posted by sh76
    My point in general is that many of these surveys that purport to determine whether society is racist ask questions like this.
    There is also a danger in surveys that you may end up testing for the wrong thing without realising it. For example, if Trump supporters are generally less intelligent than Clinton supporters they may misunderstand questions more often and give different answers on that account.
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