Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Mar '19 04:30
    Because you'd be wrong?
  3. Subscriberdivegeester
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    08 Mar '19 08:261 edit
    @whodey said
    [youtube]MuBHJbEEVUA[/youtube]
    Not a bad video actually and one which highlights my frustration with the left vs right framing of every political argument. Of course what it is missing and where the video reveals its bias is not calling out the “Right” in juxtaposition to the “Left”.

    I agree that some Leftists communicate from a hardened position that doesn’t share the same goals as my position. But that is also true of some Rightists who also have a hardened position and who do not share the same goals as me.

    @Whodey, what is your view on the “Right” on Rightists ?
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Mar '19 10:08
    @divegeester said
    Not a bad video actually and one which highlights my frustration with the left vs right framing of every political argument. Of course what it is missing and where the video reveals its bias is not calling out the “Right” in juxtaposition to the “Left”.

    I agree that some Leftists communicate from a hardened position that doesn’t share the same goals as my position. Bu ...[text shortened]... who do not share the same goals as me.

    @Whodey, what is your view on the “Right” on Rightists ?
    I thought the whole clip was bogus.

    Liberals and conservatives don't share the same goals, they want totally different things. If we followed everything the conservatives want, we'd never satisfy any supposedly "shared" goals.

    Take education. Liberals want the government (no profit motive) in charge of education, while conservatives want corporations (huge profit motive) in charge of it. With corporations in charge, most of the money "invested" (actually sucked out of the federal budget) will wind up in the pockets of CEOs or siphoned off to subsidiaries, thereby strangling good education opportunities. How does that satisfy the supposedly shared goal of educating our kids the best we can?


    I especially enjoyed the classic lie that the Left wants open borders. What a crock.
  5. Joined
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    08 Mar '19 11:12
    @divegeester said
    Not a bad video actually and one which highlights my frustration with the left vs right framing of every political argument. Of course what it is missing and where the video reveals its bias is not calling out the “Right” in juxtaposition to the “Left”.

    I agree that some Leftists communicate from a hardened position that doesn’t share the same goals as my position. Bu ...[text shortened]... who do not share the same goals as me.

    @Whodey, what is your view on the “Right” on Rightists ?
    The video shows the distinction between a liberal and a Leftists. Although liberals and conservatives may disagree, they have common goals which allow them to remain civil and work together.

    For example, both liberal and conservative want social justice, but the Leftist comes along and declares that white males are racist. There then is no conversation. Or the Left comes along and says that the right wing are fascists. Again, no conversation works because no goals are shared. Or they will say that all corporations/rich people are immoral. They have ended the conversation with the declaration that they are out to destroy them.

    Now when a conservative says that they want to secure the border or end abortion, there is leeway for debate and conversation. I'm not attacking people in particular, I'm just declaring a goal of social justice for those that cannot defend themselves with the unborn and declaring that the country needs secure borders That means that there can be compromise. So instead of saying walls are immoral, or ICE is immoral and they both need to be destroyed, you could say that you can modify both to be more effective. Or instead of saying abortion is wrong in all circumstances, you could say except in the instance that the life of the mother is in danger, etc. But to say that the unborn child is not human is simply disingenuous, and is akin to calling me a Nazi. At that point, the conversation ends.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Mar '19 11:29
    @whodey

    Do you think you can answer @divegeester's question now?
  7. Germany
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    08 Mar '19 15:52
    It sure has been amusing to watch whodey spiral further and further down the rabbit hole just because he is unable to cope with the reality of having voted against his own interests for decades.
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    08 Mar '19 17:31
    @KazetNagorra
    An interesting social situation affecting millions of other folk too. Like the 30 odd % of Americans frothing at the mouth supporters of Trump even though they have to be feeling the heat from his failures to lead like his supposed tax cut where in fact middle Americans will find themselves paying more come tax time and farmers losing jobs because they lost soy bean customers in China and the trade deficit now approaching a TRILLION dollars.
    Cannot understand in the slightest why there is this 30% who will be with him even if he is tried for treason and executed (not that that will happen, just hyperbole for the sake of argument)
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    08 Mar '19 17:34
    @whodey
    Because you can’t punch your way out of a paper bag ? 😛
  10. Subscriberlemondrop
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    08 Mar '19 17:53
    @mghrn55 said
    @whodey
    Because you can’t punch your way out of a paper bag ? 😛
    Trump has the most punchable face I have ever seen
    whenever he's on the TV I start shadow boxing
    must have knocked him out a thousand times
  11. Subscriberdivegeester
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    08 Mar '19 18:29
    @Suzianne

    Just what I was thinking.
  12. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    08 Mar '19 21:05
    @suzianne said
    Take education. Liberals want the government (no profit motive) in charge of education, while conservatives want corporations (huge profit motive) in charge of it.
    I think you are wrong.
    Most conservatives and most liberals want the same goal in many areas.
    Take education.
    Don't we all want the best for children regardless of our ideology?
    The goal is the same but the Left and Right differ on the best way to achieve that.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Mar '19 06:49
    @wolfgang59 said
    I think you are wrong.
    Most conservatives and most liberals want the same goal in many areas.
    Take education.
    Don't we all want the best for children regardless of our ideology?
    The goal is the same but the Left and Right differ on the best way to achieve that.
    No, no, no, no, no.

    They simply say they want the same goals. They don't.

    Their main goal always seems to be shoveling as much money upstairs to their rich oligarch overlords as possible.

    That is not my goal. What "shared" goals? It's pure BS.
  14. Germany
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    09 Mar '19 12:25
    @suzianne said
    No, no, no, no, no.

    They simply say they want the same goals. They don't.

    Their main goal always seems to be shoveling as much money upstairs to their rich oligarch overlords as possible.

    That is not my goal. What "shared" goals? It's pure BS.
    I don't think that's true. Most people are well-meaning, and probably even whodey.

    The problem is that people who have never been taught to think for themselves are easily taken advantage of, and then the unintended consequence of the erroneous voting decisions by the likes of whodey is what appears to be groveling to the oligarchs to an informed observer.
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    09 Mar '19 19:291 edit
    @divegeester said
    @Suzianne

    Just what I was thinking.
    I would say that the "right", or GOP, tells people what they think they want to hear but know they will never do.

    For example, the GOP ran against Obamacare, and even voted to repeal it with Obama in office knowing he would veto it. However, once Trump was there to sign it, they inexplicably refused to repeal it again.

    Look at border security. The GOP consistently runs on border security, and with the GOP in full control of government for two long years, they do nothing. Now that the Dims take the House, all of a sudden they want border security?

    As for arguing with them, they have no real interest in engaging in debate. They would rather lose office than appease the conservative base agendas.
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