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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    08 Oct '13 15:37
    Who actually thinks it could happen?

    The House of Representatives is pretty dug in. Whether they're nuts or not - and I'm very conflicted about the stalemate - House Republicans are fairly insulated from electoral displeasure. Obama, on the other hand, doesn't have to stand for reelection, but does have his legacy to worry about.

    Moon, I can't wait for your frothing, foaming-at-the-mouth, idiotic reply, but I'd like to ask the saner folks here for a response as well. Will Obama allow the US to default on his watch? What could he do? Invoke the 14th Amendment? Suspend the Constitution? Maybe, I dunno, negotiate?

    There is a precedent for Obama negotiating. He has, after all, negotiated with Syria, Russia, and Iran. He even outsourced his Syria strategy to Russia (and now he's outsourced his debt ceiling strategy to Harry Reid).

    Or, will he allow himself to be known as the president who stood on principle, and told the world that they could no longer count on the full faith and credit of the United States?
  2. 08 Oct '13 15:42
    Obama will make a minor compromise to moderate Republicans to get them to raise the debt ceiling. The small minority of Republicans who are not guaranteed to win re-election are rightly worried that Tea Party Republicans are going to ruin their chances of re-election in 2014.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Oct '13 15:45
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Who actually thinks it could happen?

    The House of Representatives is pretty dug in. Whether they're nuts or not - and I'm very conflicted about the stalemate - House Republicans are fairly insulated from electoral displeasure. Obama, on the other hand, doesn't have to stand for reelection, but does have his legacy to worry about.

    Moon, I can ...[text shortened]... old the world that they could no longer count on the full faith and credit of the United States?
    I have to believe that even the intransigent dopes running the US government aren't stupid enough to let the United States of America default on its debt obligations.
  4. 08 Oct '13 15:47
    Originally posted by sh76
    I have to believe that even the intransigent dopes running the US government aren't stupid enough to let the United States of America default on its debt obligations.
    I wish Americans were not so stupid as to believe the US can't pay its debt without raising the debt limit.
  5. 08 Oct '13 15:57
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I wish Americans were not so stupid as to believe the US can't pay its debt without raising the debt limit.
    lol

    Sh76, I rest my case.
  6. 08 Oct '13 16:32
    Originally posted by sh76
    I have to believe that even the intransigent dopes running the US government aren't stupid enough to let the United States of America default on its debt obligations.
    Why would the first choice be to not pay the bills, over stopping some current programs?
  7. 08 Oct '13 16:33
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    lol

    Sh76, I rest my case.
    Put in terms you might understand, your credit card is maxxed out. Do you stop making the payment, or stop buying stuff with it?
  8. 08 Oct '13 16:35
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Obama will make a minor compromise to moderate Republicans to get them to raise the debt ceiling. The small minority of Republicans who are not guaranteed to win re-election are rightly worried that Tea Party Republicans are going to ruin their chances of re-election in 2014.
    Are the TP republicans all in "safe" districts? Are they the only ones with backbones and convictions?
  9. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    08 Oct '13 16:39
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Are the TP republicans all in "safe" districts? Are they the only ones with backbones and convictions?
    I think it's well understood that right now, Republicans' chief fears are primary challenges from the Right. I wish the Todd Akins of the world would be scrubbed from the Party. But how far should Democrats be allowed to go before political opposition arrests the growth of the leviathan welfare state?
  10. 08 Oct '13 16:50
    Originally posted by sh76
    I have to believe that even the intransigent dopes running the US government aren't stupid enough to let the United States of America default on its debt obligations.
    What do you think the prospects of actually paying the debt are? A 100 billion surplus every year would take 170 years to retire the debt. I left out interest as that is part of the budget calculations.

    In our government's manner of ten year budgets, 100 B, turns into a trillion surplus, which everyone would be out to spend on their pet projects. Don't believe me, pull out some newspapers when Clinton discovered a trillion dollar surplus.

    I wish I knew an answer, but in the end default may be the only way forward. It is right now getting worse to the tune of 800 billion $ a year and we have not had a federal budget for more than 4 years.
  11. 08 Oct '13 17:01
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    I think it's well understood that right now, Republicans' chief fears are primary challenges from the Right. I wish the Todd Akins of the world would be scrubbed from the Party. But how far should Democrats be allowed to go before political opposition arrests the growth of the leviathan welfare state?
    "I think it's well understood that right now, Republicans' chief fears are primary challenges from the Right."

    So all the noise from Moonbeam and the press is really fear that the TP is likely to grow in power, perhaps even taking over the R party. Primary challenges are grass roots, democratic process. They can't work without appeal to the voters.

    Akin and others who are loose lipped will get scrubbed. That is the whole idea of challenges. I know when I was involved in the early TP planning we spoke of primary challenges to Democrats as well by TP candidates, as particular issues allowed such. In some cities there hasn't been a viable R candidate since the '30s. How does anyone break that cycle, but in the primaries?
  12. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    08 Oct '13 17:28
    Originally posted by sh76
    I have to believe that even the intransigent dopes running the US government aren't stupid enough to let the United States of America default on its debt obligations.
    I hope you are right, but I'm not so sure.
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Oct '13 17:43
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Put in terms you might understand, your credit card is maxxed out. Do you stop making the payment, or stop buying stuff with it?
    I'm as big a deficit hawk as there is on these boards, but our credit cards are not maxed out. Not by a long shot.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Oct '13 17:44
    Originally posted by normbenign
    What do you think the prospects of actually paying the debt are? A 100 billion surplus every year would take 170 years to retire the debt. I left out interest as that is part of the budget calculations.

    In our government's manner of ten year budgets, 100 B, turns into a trillion surplus, which everyone would be out to spend on their pet projects. Do ...[text shortened]... to the tune of 800 billion $ a year and we have not had a federal budget for more than 4 years.
    There's no necessity to lower the national debt to zero. If you're running a budget surplus, government debt is not even necessarily a bad thing.

    Of course, figuring out how to get to a budget surplus is another story.
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    08 Oct '13 17:48
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    House Republicans are fairly insulated from electoral displeasure. Obama, on the other hand, doesn't have to stand for reelection, but does have his legacy to worry about.
    ????

    They're going to lose the House in 2014. Obama's already won his two Presidential elections.