Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberfinnegan
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    22 Oct '16 09:53
    Odd how xenophobia hits arbitrary human targets without a shred of logic.

    http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/tory-britains-heartless-xenophobia-in-action/
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    22 Oct '16 10:141 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Odd how xenophobia hits arbitrary human targets without a shred of logic.

    http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/tory-britains-heartless-xenophobia-in-action/
    Its not the first time that we have welcomed a family only to be told by the home office that they are ineligible to stay here. Gregg and Kathyrn Brain ans Aussie couple were allowed to remain only after first minister Nicola Sturgeon intervened on their behalf. Their kids were brought up here and learned Gaelic!! Scotland is prepared to entertain anyone who will contribute, we have plans to welcome all EU university students and to offer free education as is our proud socialist tradition.

    I know you had reservations about independence Finnegan which I think were valid, no one wants the contrary to descend into parochial cronyism but man I don't think people realise just how left the SNP actually are, they are more left than the labour party and hugely popular in a land that has an innate distrust of Torysim for valid reasons. We are also hugely pro European and if Brexit does not deliver and its difficult to actually see how it benefits anyone we will undoubtedly have another referendum for sure. It ludicrous that a sovereign nation such as ours is made subject to values that are alien to its expressed will.
  3. Standard memberfinnegan
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    22 Oct '16 10:22
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its not the first time that we have welcomed a family only to be told by the home office that they are ineligible to stay here. Gregg and Kathyrn Brain ans Aussie couple were allowed to remain only after first minister Nicola Sturgeon intervened on their behalf. Their kids were brought up here and learned Gaelic!! Scotland is prepared to entertain ...[text shortened]... a sovereign nation such as ours is made subject to values that are alien to its expressed will.
    Indeed.

    Third Way politics has wreaked havoc on both sides of the Atlantic.
  4. Standard memberfinnegan
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    22 Oct '16 10:41
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/calais-jungle-children-teenage-boys-refugees-young-men-look-older-age-assessment-reason-why-a7373146.html

    Nice response to the current Calais debacle where the British Government have finally allowed a number of children perfectly entitled to asylum here to be admitted. and the resulting outburst of hate speech led by The Sun.

    Their faces were blasted all over the tabloids, in a breach of these children’s privacy that wouldn’t be allowed in any other context I know. The main complaint seemed to be that they “needed a shave”. Well, yeah. Plenty of Afghans have full beards at 12. That’s biology. Next.

    What are these teens supposed to look like? They’ve been travelling for months (years, in some cases), sleeping rough, starving and dehydrated, with little treatment for injuries, and then they ended up living in the – let’s pause on this word for a second – Jungle. They've had to act like men to survive. They’re not going to bounce off the bus like Harry Potter on his first day at Hogwarts.

    For these boys to make it through the sorting hat of the stringent Home Office selection procedure, you can bet they’ll have pretty rock solid documentation that proves their age. But many others don’t. Birth certificates don’t come as standard in many countries. Or they get lost, or misinterpreted.
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    22 Oct '16 10:47
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its not the first time that we have welcomed a family only to be told by the home office that they are ineligible to stay here. Gregg and Kathyrn Brain ans Aussie couple were allowed to remain only after first minister Nicola Sturgeon intervened on their behalf. Their kids were brought up here and learned Gaelic!! Scotland is prepared to entertain ...[text shortened]... a sovereign nation such as ours is made subject to values that are alien to its expressed will.
    I agree with you, and I'm an Englishman! When the whole Scottish referendum thing happened I was glad that Scotland and England stayed united, and I still hope they will, but the 'Brexit' disaster has to change the perspective. I live in Indonesia and intend to stay here, and so I watch from a distance as the British economy falls apart....I am depressed by this, and can honestly say that I have never before been so ashamed to be English as I now feel. And so, of course Scotland should hold another referendum, and of course in the light of recent events she will almost certainly vote for complete independence, and all power to her. Just please bear in mind that not all English people are so narrow - minded as to wish to leave the EU....We hope for better times to come, but 'Brexit' has been a huge step backwards for Britain, Europe and the big world out there....
  6. Standard memberAmaurote
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    22 Oct '16 11:232 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    man I don't think people realise just how left the SNP actually are, they are more left than the labour party
    Really? They're beiger than the Liberal Democrats. The only thing more centrist than the SNP is a roundabout. Honestly, if it wasn't for unilateralism, the only remotely radical attribute of the SNP is their Blairite genius for crushing the few dissenting ideas and voices that remain, and their friendliness to the Scottish middle classes at the expense of the Scottish working class is pure Shug Nesbitt minus the Anglophilia.
  7. Standard memberfinnegan
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    22 Oct '16 13:09
    MILLIONS of Britons are surprised at how few seven-year-old refugees have journeyed alone across the whole of Europe.

    The admittance of a handful of child refugees to the UK has seen widespread complaints that they are not small girls wearing artfully tattered clothing and clutching a one-eyed teddy bear.

    Francesca Johnson, from Colchester, said: “My ideal refugee would be a girl aged between four and seven who lost her parents to the monsters of ISIS. Not Assad’s forces, that makes it too ambiguous.

    “She’d have crossed the Mediterranean in a tyre and struggled through European countries filled with cruel stereotypes to reach the beacon of kindness and fair play that is Britain, but wouldn’t have aged in the face and would still have lovely pigtails.

    “I’d accept boys, but with an upper limit of three years old because they’re not cute after that and get into mischief. Meaning terrorism.”

    Roy Hobbs, from Darlington, agreed: “I tell you what, some of these 5,000 civilians fleeing the battle of Mosul look over 18 to me.

    “I’ll need a bloody good explanation of why they didn’t stay in that warzone. Because they want to claim benefits, I bet.”

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/britain-mystified-more-seven-year-old-children-havent-made-unaccompanied-2300-mile-journey-from-syria-20161022115676
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    22 Oct '16 13:53
    Scotland has always been more liberal than the rest of the UK, however, the economic case for independence has gotten weaker (debt of 10%, oil revenues etc). I think it's terrible that the family isn't allowed to stay in the UK. My mother traditionally votes Labour and my father conservative, for various reasons. I wish it was possible to stay in the EU, but I think they need a little bit of a wake up call regarding certain issues, (immigration is not an issue for me, growing up in SA where diversity is loved and an integral part of our national identity) but more things like the arrogance of Jean Claude Juncker and the damage the euro currency has done to the economies of Southern Europe. If Jean Claude Juncker was fired and the arch-federalist cronies were fired from the European Commision I would like to reverse brexit. I don't want Scotland to leave the UK despite brexit, I don't want to pay tax on Scotch either, it's too delicious!
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    22 Oct '16 13:56
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    Scotland has always been more liberal than the rest of the UK, however, the economic case for independence has gotten weaker (debt of 10%, oil revenues etc). I think it's terrible that the family isn't allowed to stay in the UK. My mother traditionally votes Labour and my father conservative, for various reasons. I wish it was possible to stay in the EU, b ...[text shortened]... nd to leave the UK despite brexit, I don't want to pay tax on Scotch either, it's too delicious!
    The cost of freedom is indeed very high. It sounds as if the cost is more than those in Scotland are wiling to pay.
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    22 Oct '16 19:36
    Originally posted by whodey
    The cost of freedom is indeed very high. It sounds as if the cost is more than those in Scotland are wiling to pay.
    When Scotland gets independence they will swop Westminster for Berlin '
    Good luck .
  11. SubscriberWajoma
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    23 Oct '16 02:09
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Odd how xenophobia hits arbitrary human targets without a shred of logic.

    http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/tory-britains-heartless-xenophobia-in-action/
    I'm encouraged by the title of this thread, that you didn't try to play that ratty old race card again, i.e. British people are a race, immigrants are a race, a group of people who share a whack job religion are a race, items of clothing are a race.

    Looks like our little chats are paying off, it's a thankless task but the reward is being right, true, correct.
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    23 Oct '16 04:04
    Originally posted by phil3000
    When Scotland gets independence they will swop Westminster for Berlin '
    Good luck .
    Just think, if Scotland HAD gotten their independence, they would not have to be a part of Brexit.

    Dolts.

    Of course, if I were English, I would know that Britain has fought two bloody world wars to be sovereign. How then could I let that sovereignty go to mainland Europe that has tried to enslave me for an entire century?
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    23 Oct '16 08:10
    Originally posted by whodey
    Just think, if Scotland HAD gotten their independence, they would not have to be a part of Brexit.

    Dolts.

    Of course, if I were English, I would know that Britain has fought two bloody world wars to be sovereign. How then could I let that sovereignty go to mainland Europe that has tried to enslave me for an entire century?
    The British have a knack for standing up to European dictatorships. Jean Claude Juncker and his bureaucratic cronies have far to much power for those not elected by the will of the people. Fat cats must fall.
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    23 Oct '16 20:343 edits
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka to Whodey
    The British have a knack for standing up to European dictatorships. Jean Claude Juncker and his
    bureaucratic cronies have far to much power for those not elected by the will of the people. Fat cats must fall.
    Ash (If I write his complete name, RHP censors my post) likes to make very misleading,
    disingenuous, or simply blatantly false comments about history.

    "The British have a knack for standing up for European dictatorships."
    --Ash

    Some of them. Some of the time. When it seems important enough to serve British interests.
    Or *beginning after* a European dictator has attacked the UK or its ally.

    What did the UK ever do to stand up against Franco seizing power and ruling Spain?
    What did the UK ever do to oppose Mussolini's invasion (very popular in Italy) of Ethiopia?

    In reality, the UK showed its readiness to accept Fascist dictators such as Franco and Mussolini.
    After the Second World War began in Europe (September 1939), the UK kept doing
    business as usual (including ordering arms) with Italy. The UK courted Mussolini,
    hoping that he would stay neutral or even turn against Hitler if offered enough inducement.
    The UK began 'standing up' to Mussolini *only after* Italy declared war on the UK.

    And the UK (apparently regarding Stalin as the greater evil) also cooperated with Hitler,
    facilitating his territorial demand for the Sudetenland and later tolerating his occupying
    most of the rest of Czechoslovakia. Poland and Hungary also seized pieces of Czechoslovakia.
    And Hitler appealed to Slovak nationalists by allowing a nominally independent Slovakia.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    23 Oct '16 20:431 edit
    Originally posted by Amaurote
    ... and their friendliness to the Scottish middle classes at the expense of the Scottish working class...
    Come again?

    In America, the "middle class" IS the "working class", at least historically. (Although many would argue that the "working class" are making less and less and therefore are becoming a "lower middle class", if not an "upper lower class". Many have said that the "middle class" in America is dying, because when the "rich get richer" it is usually at the cost of the "middle class".)

    Is it not the same in the UK?
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