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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    31 Aug '16 22:252 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder to Sleepyguy
    Of course, we are not at war with ISIS (we'd have to recognize it as a State and get Congress to vote for war under the Constitution) but it has been a standard practice since antiquity for private parties to ransom prisoners even during war. To "ransom the captive" is one of the traditional Seven Acts of Corporal Mercy (https://en.wikipedi ...[text shortened]... meddling in other nation's affairs that has marked US foreign policy for the last century or so.
    Regarding the 'rumors that Kayla [Mueller] had been sexually abused during her captivity',
    a few witnesses (reportedly) have been interviewed (by Western journalists) confirming it.
    Kayla Mueller spent some time with Yazidi young women who were being held by ISIS.
    Reportedly, some Yazidi women had contact with Kayla Mueller after she was raped, which
    she presumably confided to them. A few of these Yazidi women were able to escape.

    Given ISIS's infamous record in raping Yazidi women and girls, it's hardly surprising that
    Kayla Mueller eventually could have met a similar fate, even if her status as an American
    woman initially protected her from some of the worse abuses.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    31 Aug '16 22:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Regarding the 'rumors that Kayla [Mueller] had been sexually abused during her captivity',
    a few witnesses (reportedly) have been interviewed (by Western journalists) confirming it.
    Kayla Mueller spent some time with Yazidi young women who were being held by ISIS.
    Reportedly, some Yazidi women had contact with Kayla Mueller after she was raped, which
    s ...[text shortened]... ing Yazidi women and girls, it's hardly surprising that Kayla Mueller could meet a similar fate.
    The "saving" of the Yazidi from ISIS was the initial rationale used by the US to enter military operations against ISIS. I would still rate the claim that Mueller was raped (by the leader of ISIS no less) made on the basis of information received from two Yazidis girls months after her death as "unverified" and a bit convenient for US officials.http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/14/us/isis-leader-sexual-abuse-u-s-hostage/index.html
  3. Zugzwang
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    31 Aug '16 22:40
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The "saving" of the Yazidi from ISIS was the initial rationale used by the US to enter military operations against ISIS. I would still rate the claim that Mueller was raped (by the leader of ISIS no less) made on the basis of information received from two Yazidis girls months after her death as "unverified" and a bit convenient for US officials.http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/14/us/isis-leader-sexual-abuse-u-s-hostage/index.html
    First of all, I never have believed that the USA acts in the Middle East exclusively or even
    primarily on account of its professed concerns for human rights or international law.

    If ISIS's leader is ever arrested and extradited to stand trial for raping Kayla Mueller,
    then he could hire No1Marauder to do his utmost in defending him.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    31 Aug '16 22:451 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    First of all, I never have believed that the USA acts in the Middle East exclusively or even
    primarily on account of its professed concerns for human rights or international law.

    If ISIS's leader is ever arrested and extradited to stand trial for raping Kayla Mueller,
    then he could hire No1Marauder to do his utmost in defending him.
    Unlike you, I don't automatically believe every claim of rape. This is a particularly convenient one for US policy makers to make and they have little incentive to actually assess the probative worth of the evidence.

    Your continued personalizing in virtually every thread we both make posts in is an unfortunate distraction and blatant trolling.
  5. Zugzwang
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    31 Aug '16 23:045 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Unlike you, I don't automatically believe every claim of rape. This is a particularly convenient one for US policy makers to make and they have little incentive to actually assess the probative worth of the evidence.

    Your continued personalizing in virtually every thread we both make posts in is an unfortunate distraction and blatant trolling.
    "Unlike you, I don't automatically believe every claim of rape."
    --No1Marauder

    The pathological liar and sexist troll No1Marauder keeps blatantly lying about what I believe.
    It's a common lie of sexist trolls to accuse feminists of demanding that all men accused
    of rape be instantly convicted without receiving a fair trial.

    As a historian, I know that many women and girls have been raped in situations of armed
    hostilities even though they (if they survive) may never be able to prove it in court.

    Given No1Marauder's record of usually doing his disingenuous utmost to defend men
    accused of rape or sexual assault, he should be amply qualified to act as a zealous
    defense lawyer for any man accused of raping Kayla Mueller.

    For whatever it's worth, Kayla Mueller's parents, who are very critical of the US government,
    apparently believe that she was raped while being held by ISIS.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    31 Aug '16 23:16
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "Unlike you, I don't automatically believe every claim of rape."
    --No1Marauder

    The pathological liar and sexist troll No1Marauder keeps blatantly lying about what I believe.
    It's a common lie of sexist trolls to accuse feminists of demanding that all men accused
    of rape be instantly convicted without receiving a fair trial.

    Given No1Marauder's re ...[text shortened]... critical of the US government,
    apparently believe that she was raped while being held by ISIS.
    Can't help yourself can you?

    Sick.
  7. Zugzwang
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    31 Aug '16 23:211 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Can't help yourself can you?
    Sick.
    The troll No1Marauder has a long record of flagrantly lying about what I believe and write.

    Can No1Marauder *quote* anything where I wrote--as he claims--that I believe *every*
    accusation of rape must be true?
    No1Marauder's tireless lies and other abuses cannot fabricate such evidence.

    No1Marauder recently wrote that he KNEW that I cannot be a non-white woman.
    No1Marauder claimed to have 'observed' in my 'prior posts' that I am white.
    But No1Marauder cannot cite any evidence that I ever have written that I am white.
    The only reason why No1Marauder concluded that I am white is his racial prejudice.
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    31 Aug '16 23:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The troll No1Marauder has a long record of flagrantly lying about what I believe and write.

    Can No1Marauder *quote* anything where I wrote--as he claims--that I believe *every*
    accusation of rape must be true?
    No1Marauder's tireless lies and other abuses cannot fabricate such evidence.

    No1Marauder recently wrote that he KNEW that I cannot be a non- ...[text shortened]... I am white.
    The only reason why No1Marauder concluded that I am white is his racial prejudice.
    Another thread hijacked.

    This is really getting ridiculous.
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    31 Aug '16 23:441 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Another thread hijacked.

    This is really getting ridiculous.
    Just now?
  10. Zugzwang
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    31 Aug '16 23:58
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Another thread hijacked.
    This is really getting ridiculous.
    The troll No1Marauder might consider attempting to become less of a pathological liar.

    "Unlike you, I don't automatically believe every claim of rape."
    --No1Marauder (to Duchess64)

    No1Marauder LIED. No1Marauder CANNOT QUOTE anything where I wrote that
    I 'automatically believe every claim of rape' (or anything with equivalent meaning).
  11. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    01 Sep '16 00:05
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Of course, we are not at war with ISIS (we'd have to recognize it as a State and get Congress to vote for war under the Constitution) but it has been a standard practice since antiquity for private parties to ransom prisoners even during war. To "ransom the captive" is one of the traditional Seven Acts of Corporal Mercy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wo ...[text shortened]... meddling in other nation's affairs that has marked US foreign policy for the last century or so.
    Well that is a very good post. I must think on it.
  12. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    01 Sep '16 00:08
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The troll No1Marauder might consider attempting to become less of a pathological liar.

    "Unlike you, I don't automatically believe every claim of rape."
    --No1Marauder (to Duchess64)

    No1Marauder LIED. No1Marauder CANNOT QUOTE anything where I wrote that
    I 'automatically believe every claim of rape' (or anything with equivalent meaning).
    You were doing well for a while there D. Was an interesting topic but then wham, off you went. Total bummer.
  13. Zugzwang
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    01 Sep '16 00:18
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    You were doing well for a while there D. Was an interesting topic but then wham, off you went. Total bummer.
    *If* No1Marauder had *not* lied to attack me, then I would *not* have to point out that No1Marauder lied.
    But Sleepyguy prefers to criticize me for pointing out No1Marauder's lie rather than criticizing his lie.
  14. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    01 Sep '16 00:27
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    *If* No1Marauder had *not* lied to attack me, then I would *not* have to point out that No1Marauder lied.
    But Sleepyguy prefers to criticize me for pointing out No1Marauder's lie rather than criticizing his lie.
    Duchess, wait. Why does this keep happening? Are you sure we are ALL, everyone but you, to blame for your continued heated run ins on this forum? You are, I think, simply clueless of how your words are often received, and you seem to have no ability to appreciate a grey area. Not BS-ing you here. You should talk to someone you know and trust about it.

    That is all.
  15. Zugzwang
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    01 Sep '16 00:271 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    After Kayla Mueller's death, the US government changed its policy to allow private ransom in the future.
    Her parents wish, of course, that it had been changed earlier.
    "I think the Muellers have a right to be upset."
    --Chris Voss (retired hostage negotiator for the FBI, who has read the E-mails between the Mueller family and ISIS)

    "We were like sheep. We were following what the government told us to do. We had no idea."
    --Carl Mueller (Kayla Mueller's father)

    "They [Kayla Mueller's parents] were told [by the US government] that if they made any
    sort of offer [of ransom to ISIS] they'd be prosecuted, which is unconscionable."
    --Chris Voss
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