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  1. 29 Aug '14 14:29
    http://gawker.com/what-black-parents-tell-their-sons-about-the-police-1624412625

    A Tumblr quote floated over to me about around the time of Trayvon Martin's murder, from a Jonathan Lethem book that I've never read (The Fortress of Solitude). At this point, I don't really need to read it, because it's already asked me the most important question I've heard in a long time: "At what age is a black boy when he learns he's scary?"

    This question retains its relevance now more than ever. Some have called Michael Brown's killing and the newly newsworthy manifestation of systemic racism and state-sanctioned brutality against black men a reproductive issue, arguing that it prevents women and men from their right "to parent the children we have in safe and healthy environments:" It makes people afraid to have black babies, because they won't stand a chance. As a black woman, nothing will stop me from bearing and raising my future child, but nothing will stop me from raising them in fear.

    Such is the burden of black parenting. Being a black parent, especially of a black boy, comes with the added onus of having to protect your child from a country that is out to get him—a country that kills someone that looks like him every 28 hours, a country that will likely imprison him by his mid-thirties if he doesn't get his high school diploma, a country that is more than twice as likely to suspend him from school than a white classmate.

    This fear has fueled a generational need for a portentous, culturally compulsory lecture that warns young black men about the inherent strikes against them, about the society that is built to bring them down. It is a harbinger of the inevitable, a wishful attempt at exceptionalism, passed down like an heirloom.

    Every black male I've ever met has had this talk, and it's likely that I'll have to give it one day too. There are so many things I need to tell my future son, already, before I've birthed him; so many innocuous, trite thoughts that may not make a single difference. Don't wear a hoodie. Don't try to break up a fight. Don't talk back to cops. Don't ask for help. But they're all variations of a single theme: Don't give them an excuse to kill you.

    I needed advice on how to do this, so I reached out to a small group of people. For black parents, I asked: What rules, warnings, survival tactics are you giving your children as you raise them? For black youth: What have you been taught? What did you learn on your own? And for everyone: What would you have told Michael Brown before he left the house that afternoon?



    after this are testimonies from black parents having to raise black children in america.


    and some dare say that racism is dead
  2. 29 Aug '14 19:58
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    http://gawker.com/what-black-parents-tell-their-sons-about-the-police-1624412625

    [b]A Tumblr quote floated over to me about around the time of Trayvon Martin's murder, from a Jonathan Lethem book that I've never read (The Fortress of Solitude). At this point, I don't really need to read it, because it's already asked me the most important question I've h ...[text shortened]... ck parents having to raise black children in america.


    and some dare say that racism is dead
    I already have heard this from some of my African-American acquaintances.
    The United States remains a deeply racist society. And many white Americans
    remain deeply in denial about the their society's racism and their own.
  3. 29 Aug '14 21:38
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    http://gawker.com/what-black-parents-tell-their-sons-about-the-police-1624412625

    [b]A Tumblr quote floated over to me about around the time of Trayvon Martin's murder, from a Jonathan Lethem book that I've never read (The Fortress of Solitude). At this point, I don't really need to read it, because it's already asked me the most important question I've h ...[text shortened]... lack parents having to raise black children in america.

    and some dare say that racism is dead
    'And some dare say that racism is dead (in the USA).'
    --Zahlanzi

    I expect many white Americans not to believe or not to care at all
    about 'what black (American) parents tell their sons about the police'.
  4. 29 Aug '14 21:43
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    http://gawker.com/what-black-parents-tell-their-sons-about-the-police-1624412625

    [b]A Tumblr quote floated over to me about around the time of Trayvon Martin's murder, from a Jonathan Lethem book that I've never read (The Fortress of Solitude). At this point, I don't really need to read it, because it's already asked me the most important question I've h ...[text shortened]... ck parents having to raise black children in america.


    and some dare say that racism is dead
    How many parents of black boys do you actually know? Before you go around representing what black parents tell their kids, you might try actually talking to one or two.

    Patent Zahlanzi ignorance
  5. 29 Aug '14 21:48
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I already have heard this from some of my African-American acquaintances.
    The United States remains a deeply racist society. And many white Americans
    remain deeply in denial about the their society's racism and their own.
    "I already have heard this from some of my African-American acquaintances.
    The United States remains a deeply racist society."

    Surprise!! The earth is a deeply racist planet. People instinctively favor others who look like them. The United States is hardly immune to this, but it has taken more measures to control this impulse, and give equal opportunity to every citizen.

    As I asked Zahlanzi, how many African Americans do you really know? Have you ever lived in a majority African American community for any length of time?
  6. 29 Aug '14 21:50
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    'And some dare say that racism is dead (in the USA).'
    --Zahlanzi

    I expect many white Americans not to believe or not to care at all
    about 'what black (American) parents tell their sons about the police'.
    I can tell you, but you don't want to hear what I told my African American son about the police.
  7. 29 Aug '14 21:55
    Originally posted by normbenign
    How many parents of black boys do you actually know? Before you go around representing what black parents tell their kids, you might try actually talking to one or two.

    Patent Zahlanzi ignorance
    funny, coming from someone who didn't bother to read the article. you would have seen testimonies from actual black parents and perhaps you would have abstained coming with this reply, which would be weak argument.

    if i can't know personally the people i am talking about, i must not be qualified to speak about them?
  8. 29 Aug '14 21:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I can tell you, but you don't want to hear what I told my African American son about the police.
    Normbenign (a white American) is *not* a black American and far from
    entitled to speak on behalf of all American blacks, as he might like to presume.

    As I recall, when I pointed out the fact that a recent Pew Research survey
    found that 80% of black Americans believe that the Ferguson killing should be
    related to racial issues in the USA, Normbenign hastened to dismiss that finding.
    Earlier Normbenign had been arguing that there was no way to know that
    most black Americans believe the Ferguson killing was related to racial issues.

    Zahlanzi deserves credit for being one of the rather few writers here to
    challenge the entrenched racism of many right-wing white Americans here.
    When right-wing white Americans like Normbenign deny the existence or
    minimize the extent of American racism, they lack credibility outside the USA.
  9. 29 Aug '14 22:02
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi to Normbenign
    funny, coming from someone who didn't bother to read the article. you would have seen testimonies from actual black parents and perhaps you would have abstained coming with this reply, which would be weak argument.

    if i can't know personally the people i am talking about, i must not be qualified to speak about them?
    Normbenign, a right-wing white American, sometimes seems to act as though
    he's entitled to speak on behalf of all black Americans, and he has persistently
    done his utmost to deny, minimize, or excuse racism in the United States.

    But what else should one expect from Normbenign, who has condemned
    US President Lincoln as an 'evil man' and blamed him alone for all the deaths
    in the US Civil War?
  10. 29 Aug '14 22:07
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Normbenign (a white American) is *not* a black American and far from
    entitled to speak on behalf of all American blacks, as he might like to presume.

    As I recall, when I pointed out the fact that a recent Pew Research survey
    found that 80% of black Americans believe that the Ferguson killing should be
    related to racial issues in the USA, Normbenign ...[text shortened]... he existence or
    minimize the extent of American racism, they lack credibility outside the USA.
    Stick that right wing crap where the sun doesn't shine. If you have a credible argument make it. What a surprise that would be.
  11. 29 Aug '14 22:24
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Normbenign, a right-wing white American, sometimes seems to act as though
    he's entitled to speak on behalf of all black Americans, and he has persistently
    done his utmost to deny, minimize, or excuse racism in the United States.

    But what else should one expect from Normbenign, who has condemned
    US President Lincoln as an 'evil man' and blamed him alone for all the deaths
    in the US Civil War?
    African Americans may ask just how much good race hustlers such as Al Sharpton, or Jesse Jackson have actually done for those black folk they say they represent.

    No, I never said I was entitled to "speak in behalf of all black Americans". You, actually seem to take that position, with little or no contact with actual urban African Americans. I represent me and my family, no claim for any others.

    "Normbenign, who has condemned US President Lincoln as an 'evil man' and blamed him alone for all the deaths in the US Civil War?"

    Ordinarily I would ignore this ignorant rant, due to it not being relevant to the thread.

    Lincoln alone had the opportunity to deal with secession diplomatically, or to leave the Southern states to their own devices. His choice to go to war was not to free the slaves, but to assure that he would not be the President who presided over the breakup of the Union.

    Six hundred thousand young Americans, Union and Confederate died as a result of Lincoln's decision. This was the direct result of Lincoln's selfish choice to go to war. This was an evil man.

    This is the last I'll say about this in this thread, but I thought it ought to be addressed, as it was given as a reason I could not be trusted to have an opinion about black parents say to their male children about the police.

    For clarity's sake, I am a white male, and have a black son who has never had a problem encounter with the police.
  12. 29 Aug '14 23:27
    Originally posted by normbenign
    African Americans may ask just how much good race hustlers such as Al Sharpton, or Jesse Jackson have actually done for those black folk they say they represent.

    No, I never said I was entitled to "speak in behalf of all black Americans". You, actually seem to take that position, with little or no contact with actual urban African Americans. I repres ...[text shortened]... , I am a white male, and have a black son who has never had a problem encounter with the police.
    Normbenign has again wrongly implied that I have misrepresented his
    opinion and statements about US President Lincoln and the US civil war.
    In fact, Normbenign's opinion of Lincoln has been amply discussed (and
    usually heavily criticized) by diverse writers in several threads (as I recall).

    On 23 February 2013, FMF created the thread, 'Evil Lincoln destroyed
    what was good about US' to discuss Normbenign's opinion of Lincoln.

    "(US President Lincoln) was an evil man who caused the deaths of 600,000
    Americans needlessly in the US Civil War."
    --Normbenign (2013)
  13. 29 Aug '14 23:39
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Normbenign has again wrongly implied that I have misrepresented his
    opinion and statements about US President Lincoln and the US civil war.
    In fact, Normbenign's opinion of Lincoln has been amply discussed (and
    usually heavily criticized) by diverse writers in several threads (as I recall).

    On 23 February 2013, FMF created the thread, 'Evil Lincoln d ...[text shortened]... o caused the deaths of 600,000
    Americans needlessly in the US Civil War."
    --Normbenign (2013)
    How is any of this relevant to the current thread. It doesn't even address the disclaimer I made in the previous entry.

    You seem to be a master of the irrelevant and unprovable.
  14. 29 Aug '14 23:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    How is any of this relevant to the current thread. It doesn't even address the disclaimer I made in the previous entry.

    You seem to be a master of the irrelevant and unprovable.
    It's easily provable that Normbenign called US President Lincoln an 'evil man'.

    While Normbenign may like to argue that his hatred of US President Lincoln
    (whom black Americans revere as the 'Great Emancipator' ) and his sympathy
    for the Confederate States of America (CSA) are 'irrelevant' (his claim) to his
    attitude toward racism in the USA, I expect that most people will not believe it.
    In particular, I doubt that Zahlanzi will believe Normbenign has no prejudice.

    If Normbenign walked into a meeting of an African-American civil rights group
    and began expressing his opinion that President Lincoln was an 'evil man',
    how would most, if not all, African-Americans there respond to Normbenign?
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    30 Aug '14 03:03
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Normbenign (a white American) is *not* a black American and far from
    entitled to speak on behalf of all American blacks, as he might like to presume.

    As I recall, when I pointed out the fact that a recent Pew Research survey
    found that 80% of black Americans believe that the Ferguson killing should be
    related to racial issues in the USA, Normbenign ...[text shortened]... he existence or
    minimize the extent of American racism, they lack credibility outside the USA.
    At one time most of American racism came from whites, but now the tide seems to have turned and most racism comes from Blacks. Most of whites believe the killing of Brown in Ferguson was a law and order matter. Michael Brown clearly showed a disrespect for law and order and that is what got him killed, not racism.